Folks,
Faithful reader Don Ballard asks: "Who Holds the World Record in Pulling Back a Longbow? Tell us about him.
For more than 50 years the accepted world record was held by Howard Hill at a little over 170 pounds. Pip Bickerstaffe, who makes heavy "warbows+," encouraged a lad named Mark Stretton (in the photo pulling back a 150 pounder) to challenge this mark. The story of Mark's training is typical. I can't find any details on Mark's size, but from many photos, I judge him as much larger than my 5' 10", 175 pounds and younger than my 58 years. My guess would be 6 feet, 215 pounds, 35 years old. I will see if I can find out. Update January 6, 2006, according to Pip, Mark is 5' 10" and 18 stone (252 pounds) and about 38 years old.
The recognition of Mark's accomplishment is referenced by Bickerstaffe
It is interesting that strength alone is not all that is needed to draw back a strong bow. I can bench press only about 180 pounds, whereas some of my football player students can bench press 360 pounds and yet not pull as strong a bow as me. What typically happens is that these strong fellows get better and better quickly as they try pulling the bow more. It appears that your body needs to learn how to most effectively pull the bow.
Cheers,
DR. Ron
+Longbows of greater than 80 pounds pull were usually called warbows. The reason being that they were only used in war because they could shoot an arrow hard enough to penetrate armor. If one wanted to hunt a deer or even a bear a 65 pound bow is more than adequate.
The strength of the bows in the English middle ages is hotly debated and many legends abound. I believe the typical warbow was 80-100 pounds. I have shown, with experiments at Dartmouth, that at least 80 pounds is needed for the arrow to penetrate armor. Yet, on the high side, my studies suggest that men were smaller an weaker then, so claims of 140 pound bows, I think are incorrect. The few bows that exist from 1300 to 1500 are less than 100 pounds.
Don Ballard:
Do you have any typical specifications on Native American bows? Were there many variations used by the various tribes? Did they use different bows for different events (e.g. hunting, war....etc.)? Seems to me as if their bows (from pictures) were not that large and more the short-term type.
Dr. Ron:
Derek, Armor was between 0.5-2.0 mm thick. I have done experiments with 1 mm armor and can easy penetrate it with an 80 pound bow. The armor was hand made a quite variable. However, I think my 100-120 pound bow could shot an arrow that would penetrate 95% of armor used is 1400. Cheers, Dr. Ron
ron:
ron Howard hill archery will build you bows beyond 110#. They built me some nice poundage bows for me. In the picture your pulling a fiber glass bow? not a yew war bow. the fiber glass bow is a little harder to pull being a little bit shorter and it doesnt loose poundage. nice to see there are other people in the us that likes to shoot heavy poundage longbows. sin marlon torres
lostnation_larry:
The concept of working your muscles up to 100+ bow makes sense to me, but how does one prevent damage to the joints, especially the shoulder? I have a friend who doesn't really look all that big and he only recently retired his 95# bow, which he would shoot 30-50 times a day ,several days a week. He is 52 and decided to cut back on draw weight. Good luck to you, Dr. Ron. Larry
Vince:
proteus:
dr. ron, you neglected to mention gary sentman in your original draw record post. on sept 20, 1975, sentman drew and shot a 176lb longbow, which stood as the official record until it was recently broken by mark stretton's 200lb+ effort. sentman thus held the official record for over 25 years. there were claims made by others--"chief aj", etc--but none were ever authenticated.
Den Erickson:
Hello And Good day !
Please allow me to introduce myself , I am Den Erickson .
I am the Worlds Strongest Archer , and have been for (April 1994 ) 10 Years prior to Mark Stretton's so called "Feat" .
I have demonstrated my Ability to successfully Shoot and Hunt with these weights .
I on a weekly basis shoot 6 / 6 arrow ends at 125# , 147# ,And over 230 #
with recurves and a Longbow , Drawn to my natural Draw length of 26 1/2 " .
At the Moment Mark Stretton while a terrific and competent Archer is no where near my strength or abilities , has been challenged in this regard and refuses any sort of competition .
I do have a current claim in to Guinness whilst Mark Stretton does not .
As to Stats
I am 5'8" , and 280 lbs . 32 years of age
In coorespondance with Pip he has mentioned he does not endorse any one let alone Mark Stretton pulling such heavy weight as he feels it is historically inaccurate .
This is for informational purposes as well as serving as a challenge to Mark Stretton to Match me or beat me as The Worlds Strongest .
I may be reached at Varbogen@aol.com
or USA tel 262-705-2245 .
Sincerely ,
Den Erickson
The Worlds Strongest Archer ( U.S.)
Den Erickson:
Dr. Ron ,
I am happy to see I am not the only person attemping to pull extreme weights , I hope your shoulder heals up as soon as possible .
As far as the World title , Sorry Mark Stretton , thats Mine ,You too will soon say
" Den Erickson is The Worlds Strongest Archer "
Don't worry though , you are a close second , but second is not the Strongest is it ?
Benjamin Abbott:
I reject the idea that warbows were usually lighter than a 100lbs. As shown in The Great Warbow by Strickland and Hardy, most bows recovered from the Mary Rose drew 150-160lbs. Other recovered bows, from earlier periods, also exceed 100lbs.
Bill:
I feel that it is incorrect to diss-associate raw strength with the ability to pull a heavier bow. While you can not take a strength athlete and give hime a 150 lb bow and expect him to pull it, you will be able to teach him to pull it. For him, it would not be a matter of developing stength to pull it, but rather learning how to use the muscles he has.
I have been a stregnth athlete for over 20 years and am able to draw very heavy poundages. My draw capabilites jumped up when I switched from a victorian style of shooting to medieval style. The victorian style pulls straight back using the rear deltoids. The most I can pull with this is 110. The medieval style requires you to lean forward, point the bow down and pull back in a circular motion using the larger latisimus dorsi muscles "lats". These are the same muscles you use when doing pullups. Not only are they big but they also have excellent leverage because of how the attach to the body in reference to the sholder joint. This is not an easy way to draw. It requires practice. I think of it as doing a one arm pull up into the bow.
NoSpinZone06:
The only so-called claim to fame Den Erickson has in terms of "The Worlds Best" is quite possibly the world's best con-man. So don't be fooled. The only thing Den Erickson is really good at is deceiving people. Den Erickson is great at "pulling" people's legs...if you get my drift. But ask him to back up his statements with documentation and well, you'll get a lot more of the same... all talk, no show.
Just thought you should all be aware.
John Ledford:
NoSpinZone06: wrote "The only so-called claim to fame Den Erickson has in terms of "The Worlds Best" is quite possibly the world's best con-man."
He not only pulls your leg but he will take your money and run! He had advertised selling W&W Xpert riser on eBay. I have documentation to prove that he received and cashed the money order sent via certified mail. Then he dissapeared, never sent the paid for riser and stopped returning phone calls or emails.
I also corresponded with another eBay member that he cheated, who purchased riser and limbs and never received it.
Den Erickson is a liar and a cheat and I urge you good folks in the archery community to spread the word not to purchase anything from Varbogen Archery.
How someone with a retail archery business can be so unethical is beyond me. I'm pretty sure that at least 200 of his advertised 280lbs is BS!
Nick Ashley:
Hi,
The idea that many people have of a big bow tends to be a 100lb draw weight, this is based generally on what they, as a modern man, can shoot. Many take this idea and transpose it onto the abilities of the medieval English military archer, then look for evidence to support that 'fact'. This can and does lead to false perceptions. The average draw weight of the Mary Rose warbows was 140lb and by that time the warbow was in serious delcine, it fact Henry VIII passed into law that no archer should practice at anything less than 220 yards when shooting at the marks. This distance of 220 yardswas based on the distances between the archery butts in 14th century, when archery was at its high point in England. That distance would need to be achieved with a heavy battle shaft (many people seem to forget the arrow in all of these debates), to shoot an arrow of appropriate size that distance requires an appropraite bow, in the region of 120lbs draw weight and above. The distance of 220 yards was the 'minimum' required distance with a battle shaft, the furthest distances at the Finsbury Marks were almost 400 yards! A competition has just been held in England to simulate such shooting. The 'Military Arrow' used simulates the English battle shaft, 32" long, hand forged hand, 8 1/2" fletches 1/2" high, horn re enforced nock and weighing 75grams. The furthest distance achieved was a huge 279 yards, the next 227 yrds, both of these bows were in the region of 140lb draw weight, bows in the region of 80-100lbs draw did not even make 200 yards.
The average hieght of a london resident in the late middle ages was 5' 8", hardly small and it has been shown that a farm labourer of the same period would consume about 5000calories per day of a very healthy diet.
There are very many archers in England shooting war bows in excess of 100lb draw weight, 140lb bows are becoming increasingly common. Those archers of old trained from childhood, they were fit, healthy (well the ones who didn't die of disease!), headstrong individuals, and they knew their bows.
Cheers all
Nick
An English Archer:
Den Who??
It seems to me that you are so far up your own rear end that reality seems to have passed you by.
If you have drawn bows of the weight you suggest then where is the proof, why is it that no one has heard of you or if they have they call you a con man. Now i know Mark Stretton very well and know of his acheivments, i also know at least 5 other archers in the UK that shoot Longbows over 160lb, Now when i say shoot i mean draw the bow up to the full 32" and shoot it, now me, i shoot 110lb longbow, but just like you Mr Den whatever your name is i am also the worlds strogest Archer and can pull a longbow of 300lb, how far i can pull it, well that something you already know, probably the same as you, about 4", this my not so learned friend is what's called Bull@#%t, something you seem to thrive on.
I issue a challenge to you Mr Den????, i will get together the UK strongest archers who really can shoot heavy bows and if you really want to prove that you are "The Worlds Strongest Archer" then come to the UK and prove it, this should not cost you a penny as if you really are what you say you are then you should have no problems getting sponsorship to come here.
I wait with baited breath for your answer.
An English Archer
Another English Archer:
Who is this Den Erickson, I have never heard of him, but i have heard of Mark Stretton.
Mark Stretton:
I came across this site by accident and nearly had a seizure from laughing at Den Erickson egotistical claims.
To put the record straight on my personal stats I am currently 37 years old, weigh 16.5 stone and stand at 5'10" tall.
Mr Erickson contacted me to offer a challenge and after I made it quite clear that I could'nt care less, became quite a pain.
I don't think he could quite understand why I set the record in the first place - which was for myself, my country and for the reputation of the English archers of old.
As for my record, well Den you say that you have a claim with Guinness - which is fine. However I am the current Guinness world record holder, which appeared in the 2006 edition and is for real and not part of my imagination.
Regards to you all
Mark stretton
Nick Ashley:
Nice one Mark!
There are many good strong archers in the States but I don't think this bloke is one!
NoSpinZone06:
to John Ledford: I can't say that I am surprised to read on your post that you have been swindled by the great-in-his-own-mind, Den Erickson. People like him should be required to wear a warning label: "Run! Do not walk to the nearest exit! Hide your daughters! Hide your wallets! Proceed at your own Risk!"
Nothing, and I mean nothing, he states on here or anywhere else for that matter is fact, it's all fantasy and if you think about it, it's rather sad and pathetic. However, it's just plain tragic that good people are being swindled and mislead. You would think that there would be laws against that type of criminal behavior...oh wait! there are, it just takes people speaking out and reporting these incidents to the proper authorities to hopefully put people like him out of commission. And, for your sake, I hope that's just what you did.
I'm glad to see that people are speaking out about this person and letting others know that he's a predator, plain and simple.
Chuck:
Well said NoSpinZone06,Trying to smacktalk that he is the worlds next hercules or somethin'!! And to ye Mark Stretton, Well done hope ye can pull an even mythier bow next time.
Peter John White:
For NoSpinZone06
Re Den Erickson (The Worlds Strongest Archer) - Varbogen Archery
Dear Peter,
Thank you for sending your feedback. Your feedback has been acknowledged, approved and sent to the recipient.
Recipient Details:
Company name: Varbogen Pro Shoppe
Contact Name: Den Erickson
Email: Varbogen@aol.com
Telephone: 01-262-6974007
Fax:01-262-6974007
Feedback Details:
Rating: 1
Comment Status: Approved
Date: May 23, 2007
Message: Fair warning to all. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information provided below but have come across other comments from his peers in archery forums which question this man's credability that should be raised with him directly if contemplating business activity.
This was found on a website http://www.indium.com/drlasky/entry.php?id=386
13. John Ledford:
NoSpinZone06: wrote "The only so-called claim to fame Den Erickson has in terms of "The Worlds Best" is quite possibly the world's best con-man."
He not only pulls your leg but he will take your money and run! He had advertised selling W&W Xpert riser on eBay. I have documentation to prove that he received and cashed the money order sent via certified mail. Then he dissapeared, never sent the paid for riser and stopped returning phone calls or emails.
I also corresponded with another eBay member that he cheated, who purchased riser and limbs and never received it.
Den Erickson is a liar and a cheat and I urge you good folks in the archery community to spread the word not to purchase anything from Varbogen Archery.
How someone with a retail archery business can be so unethical is beyond me. I'm pretty sure that at least 200 of his advertised 280lbs is BS!
Attachment: None
Admin Comments: None
For further questions, issues, or feedback, please write an email to feedback@tradekey.com. Please remember to include your Feedback ID in the subject line.
TradeKey.com
----- Original Message -----
From: VARBOGEN@aol.com
To: pwhite60@pcug.org.au
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:33 AM
Subject: (no subject)
What Business Do you have with me ?
I do not know you . Yet you are attempting ti Lieble me .
**************************************
Response sent Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:33 AM
Den,
Firstly, the comments went through the Tradekey.com site's administrators who decided whether it was valid, justified, relevant that I was passing it on without direct contact with you and finally to list the information and advise you. Please read what I wrote I made no claims to the accuracy of the information simply pointing out that it was there and people should raise it with you if they wanted to do business. I have been ripped off in a similar way on e-Bay and know how frustrating it can be and how preventable if people share information about their experiences. Its called due diligence.
If you had responded to the original claims on the source website http://www.indium.com/drlasky/entry.php?id=386, I would have posted them as well ( you still can). On another archery website your flippant response to it being mentioned was that you were honoured to be found on Google. Your fame increases.
Regards
Peter (The World's Greatest Me)
AUSTRALIA
Peter John White:
Feedback @tradekey.com
I'm not aware if Den Erickson of Varbogen Pro Shoppe has responded to Feedback @tradekey.com directly but he certainly feels agrieved and has threatened to "use every avenue available to me to make sure you will never be able to slander or liable anyone else again ". As I replied to his first response "the comments went through the Tradekey.com site's administrators who decided whether it was valid, justified, relevant that I was passing it on without direct contact with you and finally to list the information and advise you." and as I said when raising the issue "I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information provided "
I'm not sure what processes you undertake in making decisions to post but I will leave any further action up to Feedback @tradekey.com.
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: VARBOGEN@aol.com
To: pwhite60@pcug.org.au
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Feedback to Tradekey.com
Due Diligence ?
I had not read anyting on Dr Lasky's forum. however if you are an ebay familiar then you know how fickele these people may be , I have never scammed anyone , I was the one nailed as I had to pay for not only the merchendise , but also never get paid for it the so called consumer had the money and the product . Be wary the lies others spread may bite you .
If you have nothing to do with me , then you have no business getting involved , do you , no.
If you your wife or children or other family member had something in thier " closet " is it any business of mine , no , and I could care less , ebay has fueled a sickness in the world economy as much as the good it has done . I choose not to have anything to do with it even after proved my point with ebay and cleared my name .
If you are not willing to retract your so called issue with me I will use every avenue available to me to make sure you will never be able to slander or liable anyone else again . You and I have no business with each other , therfore you must retract it , I have never wronged you , therefore you must retract it .
I do not wish to make this more of an issue than you already have , fix this please . Retract it now ?
Best Wishes,
Den
**************************************
Peter John White:
Response sent 28/05/2007 and Cc:ed to Tradekey.com
Den,
I have simply referred it to those who made the decision to list the information and courteously Cc:ed you so that you are aware and can take whatever action you see fit. Similarly I have kept Tradekey.com in the loop. Provide them your proof and I'm sure they will remove it and advise me.
Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: VARBOGEN@aol.com
To: pwhite60@pcug.org.au
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: (no subject)
Coward
**************************************
Den Erickson:
Mr. White
I see this is Yet another Cowardly Attempt To bolster yourself . This is also not a forum in which this should be done.
Dr. Lasky is interested in the strength one cultivates for the sport , I am sure the Pettiness being purveyed is not what anyone wants.
If it is than you are a coward like Mr. Peter White .
Mr. Stretton and I have cooresponded and made it quite clear not to include each other in anything relating to this, I stand by that , and I apologize that you were pushed into this at all.
If any one doubts my Strength, or my shooting ability , Please by all means shoot with me , stand to my face when you cast your insults , Instead of using a cowardly forum in which you may hide Sniveling like a pack of old ladies .
I have never suffered insults well ,and as I am not the best looking Gent out there , I have heard a few, but never to my ugly Scarred face , a face that has been scarred by war and atrocities that no one should ever have to go through . By all means insult me if it makes you feel any better , feel free.
Steve Stratton:
1st of all us Brit's don't hate the Aussie's, quite the opposite really, the only thing we have to gripe about is they got all the sunshine and we get all the rain, HA HA.
Please Mr Den, give us a link wich shows you drawing these mighty bows you claim so we can see for ourselves, don't try and sell us a video as there have been stories of you conning people of their money, You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and as such must have pictures of yourself, well let's see some. Just to show you i am not afraid of showing myself here is a picture of me shooting a 105lb Self Yew bow.
Cheers
Steve
Steve Stratton:
The Image is at this url:http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/stevesjem/c064f2e2.jpg
Mark Stretton:
I have been practising archery for over thirty years and, in that time, I have never come across any one with an attitude such as that of Mr Erickson.
He clearly states that he has been in communication with me and, that we have both agreed not to involve each other in this debate. This is totaly untrue and I certainly have not replied to any of Mr Erickson's
E-mails since I clearly told him to not contact me again, which was in October 2006
(several months before a realised this Blog site actually existed).
When I set the official Guinness World Record, I was never under any illusions that someone one day may come along and beat it. If they did it properly, then well done to them. I know just how hard it was for me to set it in the first place.
However I have always felt that a true sportsman should be remembered by his conduct after the event, not just the achievement.
After all every one remembers the champion Boxer Mohammed Ali with great fondness. No one seems to care that he was eventually beaten. he will always be remembered as the "Greatest".
So Mr Erickson, if you want people to remember your name with pride - you had better start thinking about changing your attitude towards other people and their achievements.
Regards to you all,
Mark Stretton.
Mark Stretton:
My last post may read as if my record has now been officialy brocken.
Well it hasn't and, I still hold the official Guinness World Record!
In fact when I originaly set it, Guinness told me that it was a brand new record and that no one had ever registered a claim for this category before.
I am not trying to be smug here, but it should be realised that there have been many people in the past who have claimed official recognition and have actualy turned out to be false glory hunters.
Any way lets keep all this verbal fencing friendly, afterall archery is our common interest and not a battle ground for inflated egos.
Regards to you all and thanks to those who have supported me.
Mark Stretton.
Den Erickson:
Mark Stretton I have always treated everyone I do Business with fairly , As I have treated you Fairly . You asked not to be included and stated you did not want to get into a pissing contest with me or a lets see who can destroy themselves first race, well Now that you have spoken up you should back it up .
In regard to my bus dealings
The slanderous allegations have been disproven , and the Coward that posted them was caught in his lies.
This was an elaborate Hoax To discredit me and it has failed .
I will Prove my claim with Dr. Lasky of this sight and it will be Televised with Guinness book in attendance , this will be set up as soon as it is acceptable to Dr. Lasky .
Dr. Lasky I Sincerely Apologize For the improper use of your forum , I did not realize that the British Folk would have stooped so low as to discredit me in this fashion.
Please accept My interest and set up the trials any time after July 18th .
My Thanks ,
Den Erickson
The Real Den Erickson:
My Apologies To All of those The Posts on this site Have adversely Affected.
I am the Real Den Erickson , I am posting this as I had no idea someone had placed posts in my stead.
I believe Mr. Peter White out of Australia had something to do with this , however ,
I spoke With Mr. Stretton On the phone today apologizing for the strife the posts on this site have cost him.
Mr. Stretton has been a Gentleman in regard to how he has handled things thus far with me , and I thank him for it .
To My Fans, and to Mr. Stretton's Fans Please No more derogatory Postings of any kind .
May we please move forward and Show our pride for our accomplishments in a manner befitting the atheletes and sportsmen that we are .
I am moving forward with my records, that are in no way connected to Mr. Stretton .
I do wish Mr. Stretton the Best Of luck with all his endevours!
As I stated Sir, If you ever Wish a hunt out here in the States, You are Certainly Welcome with us any time!
Andy Kwapnioski:
I have a 97lb long bow, I am thinking of shooting 10.7gpi carbon arrows and filling the arrows full of salt, with 125 gran points, will these arrows be adequate for this bow? How light can arrows be without hurting the bow?
Thanks,
Andy
Ye:
Who Holds the World Record in Pulling Back a Longbow?
And is that pulling back to a full 28”
or is that a short arm individual pulling back an 150# @28” to 20” what standards are you looking at? Who Holds the World Record in Pulling Back a Longbow?
Anthony Pink:
Not sure about official record for weight, but Kevin of Elite archery, former shooter for Bowtech, currently hold the official arrow speed record and distance (Unlimited), pulling bows up to 225 pounds. He still shoots them at current events here in the U.S. and has shot the 225 bow 70 times at one FITA event. Though I know it’s compound, it might just be something to think about.
Jubblet:
I can’t believe you ‘tards would mess up this blog like that. Can’t idiots stay out of anything these days?
Wayne:
I have to agree with Jubblet. As an archer myself I thought I would have an interesting read here about longbow/warbow draw weights and ranges. Instead I get to read a running fight between some whining babies who can’t keep their own problem out of other peoples websites. Grow up you clowns. You tarnish my sport with your garbage.
Terry Justice:
Archery is a sport of skill,learning to focus ones own abilits,I Love archeryi shoot a #50 english Longbow made by chris stanley,unfortunaly he does not make bows anymore,such a nice bow to shoot with medival style arrows with bodkins at a range of 230 to about 250 sometimes more,they weigh about 560 grains,I guess my questin is I want the 300 to 500 range plus,how can i acheive this with the woods i have and the bow i use,been experimenting but would like more input on this situationat hand,thank you Terry J Ceres Ca
WHATINTTHEWORLD:
As for mr. Erickson…........I can tell you a few things that you must know.
He was a hero. And I have seen first hand that he can acheive all he has claimed. I challenge any of you to a dual with him…..he will be the world strongest archer
PistolDave:
Den Erickson’s “e-commerce” website is simply the free version offered by tripod.com — and that’s not too professional for someone who claims to be so awesome and accomplished in the archery world. Caveat emptor — Buyer beware! Or in this case Archer beware. :)
Carl Rose:
Crikey, i just found this site and comments. I must say all i would like is to see Mr Erickson pull that bow of his, stick a vid on you tube for us all to see. Regards.
pw:
I can ad a few comments about Den Erickson quote.
“Mark Stretton I have always treated everyone I do Business with fairly “
If this is the case why don’t you pay your bills. You are not anything but a common thief.
I am talking about the Den Erickson of
VARBOGEN Pro Shoppe who will not answer his phone or emails. Anyone looking to do business with him beware.
pw:
I can ad a few comments about Den Erickson quote.
“Mark Stretton I have always treated everyone I do Business with fairly “
If this is the case why don’t you pay your bills. You are not anything but a common thief.
I am talking about the Den Erickson of
VARBOGEN Pro Shoppe who will not answer his phone or emails. Anyone looking to do business with him beware.